Crohn’s Disease Recovery: How Diet, Lifestyle & Functional Medicine Changed Jen Germain’s Life

Leigh Brandon (00:01)
Jen, welcome to Beyond the Pain. It’s great to have you on the show.

Jen Germain (00:03)
Thank you so much for having me today, Leigh. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Leigh Brandon (00:06)
Yeah, great to have you. So, Jen, I’d love to start with your personal journey. So you were diagnosed with Crohn’s disease and told that you’d need to medicate for the rest of your life. Can you share what that experience was like and and how it led you to question the conventional approach to chronic illness and pain?

Jen Germain (00:26)
Yeah, so about six years ago, it was of in twenty twenty, I got sick, in May. And you know, I was going to the ladies’ room quite often and that kind of stuff. And but it then I started to experience other symptoms. So I started to develop a lot of fatigue, a lot of joint pain. I had like erythemia nodules, like that kind of stuff. I went to a doctor because my my ankles started to swell, but I also went because I started bleeding as well.

And so when I went to my doctor and told him, we did a lot of blood work and the blood work was was was not great. My sed rate and my HSCRP, which are both inflammatory markers for those who may not know, were triple what they should be. my I was very close, I had anemia and I was very close to even needing a blood transfusion at that time because it was it was getting really low. And

you know I they they performed other obviously my B vitamins, my B12, like all of those things were very low as well. And with that, my physician also did a blood test for Crohn’s disease. And that actually came out negative, but I, you know, I told him all my symptoms and stuff that I was experiencing, and he put me in for an emergency colonoscopy. And so with that, at the colonoscopy, the gastroenterologist there, hey Jen, you’ve got Crohn’s and also ulcerative colitis. And

It really hit me because I was pretty much healthy for most of my life. You know, I was an athlete growing up. I was a sugar addict my whole life as well. so I think that played into that a little bit too. And then also the way that I would have my some of my lifestyle factors as well, first stress management and that kind of stuff. I didn’t always think about those things at that time. so when I got that news, it really struck me. because I was like, my gosh, you know, I’m not I don’t want to say that old, but I’m I’m like I’m not, you know, if

Thought I was doing well, ate relatively healthy, you know, that kind of stuff. And it it really set me aback. And for me, when they said, I after my gastroenterologist told me that, I also went to a rheumatologist to help me with some of the pain and stuff I was experiencing as well. And then he said, you know, I asked him, Hey, could I control this with lifestyle habits? Because I was following this woman, she was a cancer survivor.

on Instagram and she talked about functional medicine and I had never really heard of functional medicine before in my life. My mom was a conventional side nurse, you know, my whole life. And so when I went into the rheumatologist after being kind of taken aback by being put on medications and stuff and I was on quite a I was taking about 10 pills a day to get my flare down. And so I went to the rheumatologist after he performed blood work and I said, Hey, could I control this?

with lifestyle changes that I’d been hearing about through functional medicine, he said no. Said no, you’ll you should be on a biologic the rest of your life. You should actually be on one right now and you should be taking medications the rest of your life. And I said no, because that’s not who I am. That’s not something that I foresaw for myself. I didn’t want to have surgeries because with Crohn’s disease you have more complications. You can have quite a few different kinds of surgeries. I didn’t want a colostomy or anything like that.

And I knew my cancer risk also skyrocketed too with the absorption issues that I had in my small intestinal tract. So for me, it was I can’t live that way. It wasn’t something that I wanted to foresee for myself in my future. And so I said, you know what? I gotta try something different. And so I looked more into functional medicine. I I made an appointment with a health coach, functional medicine, health coach myself.

It was about a month after I saw the rheumatologist. I saw her in November and spent an hour with her, which is the most time I’ve ever spent with somebody in a in a clinical setting, basically, unless I was getting a procedure or something done in the past. And it was just amazing to me because this woman took time, went through all my stuff, and she said, you know, we what we can do is put you on the autoimmune protocol diet, which was very, very strict. And

You know, I was and she went over all the information. She said, Here’s what you would do. I don’t want you counting macros. I don’t want I just want you to make sure that you’re eating enough every single day. But you can only eat from this amount of things. And so for me, it was like, Okay, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna cut out all the sugar, which was to a sugar addict my whole life. I was like, Okay, if if this if that sugar got me here, then I don’t wanna be here. I’ve got to get rid of it. And then I also had to give up gluten and dairy and things of that nature as well.

And so when I went through that, I started on that it was six for six weeks is what she had me on. And again, this was during November of twenty twenty. So we all know what was going on during that time frame. And then as well as, you know, the holidays and everything else, but I did it started on November 14th and went through that for six weeks. And the thing that I realized was during that six week time frame in the first few days, I lost brain fog. I never knew I even had.

And then I started to start feeling better. I started to have more energy. I gained clarity in my mind and was like, wow, this really is getting onto something. And so for me, it just, you know, gained more clarity to say, they there might be something to functional medicine. There might be something there. And then by by the end of those six weeks, all of my blood work was normal. My sed rate and my CRP, they were back down to where they should be.

My anemia was gone. So I didn’t have to take the iron pills and stuff anymore, which I was very grateful for because they were awful. But it it helped me to see that changing just that nutrition, I hadn’t changed anything else really. I wasn’t exercising and stuff because I was in too much pain. I really couldn’t. But doing that, I was like, wow, you can really make a difference in your health by just making those changes. And so I continued,

With an elimination diet or on the AIP, you have to bring foods back in. So I figured out what my trigger foods were. but I gave up alcohol. I’ve not gone back to gluten, I’ve gone back to raw some raw dairy. It’s more like sheep milk dairy and stuff like that for me. and I don’t do sugar at all, and I haven’t had refined sugar in six years, which to me, and I don’t miss it. And that’s the thing about conventional medicine, wouldn’t have got me there. I would have been on medications.

I would have been having flares and I haven’t had a flare in six years. And I got off all my meds within nine months. And I didn’t have to, you know, be on them anymore. And I do control it now with my nutrition, with my exercise. I started exercising a few months in and then I was like, you know, I gotta work on my stress management because stress is such a huge underlier for those with inflammatory bowel disease that isn’t talked about enough. And so I had to work on my stress and my emotional regulation and that kind of stuff.

And then my sleep habits, and then I went into personal care products. I did all of those things. But conventional medicine would have never got me there. And that’s why I’m so grateful that there is functional medicine and that there is a another way to look at the body in a whole holistic perspective and to understand that all of our systems are connected.

Leigh Brandon (07:57)
Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s interesting, you know, talking about Crohn’s. I remember once I was working with a guy, he was a semi professional footballer, and he came to me g he actually had a groin injury that no no one else could help him with, and obviously as a f soccer player, that’s not that’s not great. And he also happened to have Crohn’s disease.

Jen Germain (08:21)
wow.

Leigh Brandon (08:22)
And

I remember I worked with him for you know for a period of time and we got him back playing eventually and it w which was great. And I remember I I invited in some of my clients to do some testimonial videos for me. And it was quite interesting because obviously we went through a lot of nutrition stuff, we looked at food sensitivities, etc. and I remember him saying on the video, and this is on my on my website still.

And he said, Lee did more for my Crohn’s than any doctor that I’ve ever seen for that condition. And I didn’t actually try to help him with that. I was just trying to get him to op you know function optimally. That’s all I was trying to do. And it was almost the side effect of trying to get him to function optimally that, you know, his Crohn symptoms were pretty much gone. so it’s

Very frustrating when you do hear some practitioners say, Well, you’re gonna have to live with this the rest of your life, you’re gonna be on meds for the rest of your life, nothing you can do. You know, it’s it’s very, very frustrating. But you know, I guess that’s how they’re trained, isn’t it? You

Jen Germain (09:38)
Yeah we are. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (09:39)
know? It’s it’s it’s just a little shame that they can’t see outside of that box that they’ve been put into, you know.

Jen Germain (09:47)
Yeah, it vi it really is. It and I think that’s why, you know, I wanted to become a health coach and wanted to help other people so that they could understand that there is another way. You know, I can’t treat or diagnose anybody that’s not that’s not my wheelhouse, but to understand that you can make lifestyle changes that are going to impact you and make improvements in your overall health and well being. And it doesn’t have to come from a pill bottle. and I’m not saying that certain things shouldn’t, you know, people

get off all their meds right away. I I can’t say that to somebody. But what I’m saying is is the more that you work on yourself and your overall habits for lifestyle, it’s going to make a huge difference in your overall health.

Leigh Brandon (10:31)
Absolutely. So what were you doing workwise prior to twenty twenty?

Jen Germain (10:37)
So in 2020, I was I was actually director of marketing at my at my local chamber of commerce and stuff. And and I love my job there. I love the people there and stuff. But when I went through my my health issues and saw what it could do, and I just was like, you know, I can’t keep this secret to myself. I wanna help other people figure out what’s gonna work best for them because everybody’s body’s different. You know, you’re not gonna do the same thing that I did.

because everybody your body’s gonna react differently than mine. But I wanted to help other people to realize that they could work on themselves. And it’s not always easy. I always tell my clients it’s not an easy thing to make lifestyle habit changes, but they’re very worth it because when you do, you see the progress and you can see how the difference that it makes in yourself. And and and I think I can tell you it doesn’t happen overnight because it didn’t

You know, it it took probably decades for most of us to get to where we are. So it it’s going to take some time, but that time is well worth it because when you get to the point where you’re waking up and feeling amazing every day, which is what I do, you know, that in and of itself is a gift. And you never really want to take that gift back.

Leigh Brandon (11:54)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and you’re absolutely right, you know, I mean I’ve been working in this field f for thirty years and fortunately very early on in my career, so back in nineteen ninety-eight, I came across brief motivational interviewing.

Jen Germain (12:12)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (12:13)
So I I became very interested in behavior change when what’s that, twenty-eight years ago, I think.

Jen Germain (12:20)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (12:23)
And I think for a lot of people in our field, the biggest challenge they have is not necessarily necessarily giving the right advice, but it’s how do you support a person through a process of change. And

Jen Germain (12:35)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (12:36)
and one of the things that, you know, I teach other practitioners is that the fastest way to build resistance to change is to actually tell someone what to do.

Jen Germain (12:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (12:49)
And I always use

the analogy of a teenager, right? If you if you tell

Jen Germain (12:52)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (12:53)
a teenager to go and clean their bedroom, what’s the last thing in the world they want to do? Right. Right?

Jen Germain (12:58)
They’re not gonna be in that bedroom anytime soon.

Leigh Brandon (13:02)
So there’s a lot of there’s a lot of skills that I’ve managed to learn across across these years, because I have been so interested in behaviour change.

and I do have quite a lot of tools in my toolbox. It’s so much that I actually I’ve put courses together for, you know, people that want to change their behaviours and also for professionals who want to coach people to change their behaviours.

Jen Germain (13:26)
Yeah, no, it’s awesome. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (13:30)
and so yeah, it’s it’s a very, very big challenge. So what was your next step in terms of okay, you you went through that hero’s journey.

Right? You you su you suffered with chronic disease, you managed to find someone to take you through that process, you healed yourself. What what did you in terms of okay, so you wanted you wanted to help others, what did you then study?

Jen Germain (13:58)
So for me I was I was trying to find a place that that I like the program for a certification program and I and I came upon Functional Medicine Coaching Academy, which I really loved. they were a partner with Institute for Functional Medicine, which really helped me to say, okay, the for me it was like a gold standard because they were partnered with them. And so I I enrolled in their in their program in August of twenty twenty one.

so I I did a little bit of digging, I was looking around and but I really loved what they had and and the instructors and stuff that they brought to the table there and and what they did. And I did their their course, certification course, and then started my company in twenty tw September of twenty twenty-two. And during that time I was working still. I was still working at my my full time job, so I was doing that and and the classes and everything. And then when I opened my company, I was still doing

my daytime job full time and and started my company kind of on on the side to build up my clients and that kind of stuff because a lot of people didn’t know what a health coach did. so and and it’s exactly what you were saying is that people think I’m gonna tell them exactly what to do. And that’s not the case. I mean it depends on the person and and that’s one of the things that you have to, you know, when you come in to talk with a a health coach or a trainer or whomever you’re talking to.

Is to understand that they all have a different style. And for me, I try to see what you need. Some people, yes, they want to be told what to do. That’s how it works for them. And other people, you have to do it a little bit differently. And if you ask more open-ended questions and you start to help them to really understand and really almost come up with the ideas themselves and really draw it out of them. So it kind of depends on the person, but

but a health coach is not gonna tell you exactly what to do because they’re there really it’s like a coach, you know, they’re there to help you become that healthier version of you and whatever’s gonna work best for you. And so at that time when I enrolled in that, I really enjoyed the classes. met some really great people from all over the world. I mean, and that was one of the things that drew me to it too. It wasn’t just people that were necessarily in the US, it was

people from I had somebody from the UK and I had somebody that from South Africa and I had a couple people from you know, Grand Cayman and stuff like that. So it was all over the world. And what that really helped with was to understand what healthcare looked like in those areas too, what they would deal with, and to understand, you know, what what you know, we’re all human beings, so it’s all the same vision that we have for ourselves and to come about it.

And just to really work with all of those people was a blessing. And that’s why I really did love my classes there and and enjoyed that certification.

Leigh Brandon (17:01)
And when w when did you finally leave your daytime job in air quotes?

Jen Germain (17:07)
Yeah, so yeah.

So the day job I left in December of twenty twenty four. So because I do both private clients, but I also do corporate wellness as well. And I had a a corporate contract that I would I couldn’t keep doing all of the things and I needed to go because my stress levels were starting to increase, because I was I was pulling on more clients and stuff, which was great, which is exactly what I wanted, but

It was like, okay, now it’s on to full entrepreneurship, which was a little scary going from the nine to five and and going from a job that I did really love. The people there were wonderful. And but yeah, so it was a little scary going to entrepreneurship, but for me, it’s been a wonderful experience, a little nerve-wracking at times, but but it’s it it gives you so much freedom. And I think that’s what I love so much about it.

Leigh Brandon (17:59)
Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been a long time since I was an employee. A v a very long time.

Jen Germain (18:06)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (18:10)
and I I I’m kind of someone that I’m not really employable, if that makes sense.

Jen Germain (18:16)
Yeah, I gotcha.

Leigh Brandon (18:18)
like I I I like to make all my own decisions, I don’t like like like the typical teenager, I don’t like being told what to do. And

Jen Germain (18:25)
Yep.

Leigh Brandon (18:27)
You know, if I fail, it’s down to me, right? That’s how I’ve always looked at it. but yeah. So something that I’ve experienced over the years is that oftentimes people suffering with persistent pain also have a number of other conditions alongside it, such as you know, digestive problems, fatigue, inflammation, and even other seemingly unrelated symptoms from a

functional medicine perspective, how might gut health contribute to pain and dysfunction, you know, any anywhere in the body, really?

Jen Germain (19:05)
Yeah, gut health, we are finding more and more every day with different studies that it is very integral in our overall health, with with pain, with everything. you know, it’s something that I think is a very emerging science. I I know they started it years ago, but I think it’s becoming more and more studied and it is very integral. When we talk about, you know, the the food noise that we sometimes have or

even like mood disorders or mental health or intra you know, things of that nature, they all stem from the gut. you know, there’s some really great doctors out there, psychiatrists that are doing work right now looking at the the integration of gut health with mental health and looking at things like schizophrenia and that kind of stuff and depression. Like I think there was a study that they said they had a some mice and they took fecal

samples from a depressed mouse. And then what they did was and they put that into, you know, ingested it into the other, and they actually developed the same thing. So what it shows us is that those gut microbes in our intestinal tract and in the colon, they are very important because they not only you know digest our food, which is what we need, but they also do work with our mood.

way that we feel. And if that leaky gut, I don’t know if people have heard of the leaky gut, but if you have that leaky gut, that’s going to cause inflammation in your bloodstream. You’re going to have joint pain, you’re going to have all kinds of things. So the gut, you know, you know, they said thousands of years ago, yeah, health was in the gut. And they were right. It it is so vastly important. And that’s why nutrition is hugely important, as well as exercise. exercise also the gut

the microbes in there really love exercise and stuff too. And it’s very important to understand that what we’re ingesting every day is not just something to fuel us, but it’s something that impacts us in multiple, it’s like a ripple effect in multiple ways. And so nutrition is is really, really important with that gut health.

Leigh Brandon (21:21)
Hm. Yeah, I mean I’ve worked with people with th conditions like psywitic arthritis,

Jen Germain (21:28)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (21:29)
that, you know, in my view is probably always has some degree of kind of leaky gut syndrome, you know, and then

Jen Germain (21:37)
Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (21:39)
and it’s causing systemic inflammation throughout the body. I I I have had my own

story to tell which again I’ve I’ve told it so many times on this podcast but I’ll share it with you. a few years back I just started I I just changed my my breakfast and I and I started having porridge oats with my breakfast and a few weeks later I noticed I started getting pain in my left knee and

Jen Germain (22:07)
Mm.

Leigh Brandon (22:09)
the range of motion went from 135 degrees so I had full range in the knee to 90 degrees so I could only bend it to 90 degrees.

And it was really affecting my tennis, I couldn’t push off the left leg. And it was really annoying. You know, if someone hits my backhand and then they hit my forehand, I couldn’t push off my left leg, I couldn’t run for the ball, so I’d just watch it go by. And it went on for some time. And I also know that I generally don’t do very well with carbohydrates. And I was also really tired at the time. And I thought, let me let me just cut the porridge oats out. Not even replace it, just cut it out and see how I feel.

Well, the first thing was I felt more energy straight away, even though my calories were less. And then three three weeks later, all the pain had gone in my knee and I had full range of motion.

Jen Germain (23:00)
Yeah, it it’s a ma and it’s amazing that just that little bit, like just removing one thing and and that’s why some people say, Well, what should I add in? It’s like, well, maybe we should just start subtracting first and then we can see where we go. But I had a client that had the almost exact same thing. she was she came to me and she wanted to lose weight, but she had r really bad pain in her knees. And she went to three different orthopedic doctors and none of them could help her.

And they said, well, you know, you’re just gonna have to deal with this. And when she met with me, I said, You know, I I know that gluten can really cause some joint pain in a in a lot of people, not everybody, but it can. I said, How about we try just removing gluten for a little bit and see how you feel? And she’s like, Okay, you know, I’m willing to try that. So she did that, and within basically, I think she said within like a week of removing gluten, she started to her knees started to feel better. And then after a few weeks,

She’s like, Jen, I can ride my horses again. And she thought she’d have to give that up. And she did that her whole life. And she was like, I can actually ride my horses again because I can get up. And she couldn’t do that. And just removing the gluten from her diet did that. And so when you have that contrast of conventional medicine said, well, we can’t do anything for you. And again, I was just trying to help her with her weight loss journey, but.

She’d also talked about the pain that she was experiencing. I said, Well, let’s try cutting out some gluten and see if that helps you. So it also helped her with her bloating. She didn’t have that anymore. And then that pain in her knees, and then her other joint pain, she wasn’t experiencing as much of then either. So, just like you said, cutting out those carbohydrates for you, for her, just cutting out that gluten for her made such a huge difference. And that’s why it’s so important to understand and listen to our body.

Because our body tells us things and we don’t always want to listen to them. And you listen to like with your knees, like, mm-hmm that’s not normal. I used to have full range and now I don’t. What’s going on there? And you listen to your body. Whereas some people might just be like, I’ll just push through it or, you know, something, whatever. But I do think people are starting to understand that you can start to see a difference simply by removing things from your diet or from whether it could be like personal care products too. You know, there’s different things in there.

So removing things can be a great first step too, not just adding things in.

Leigh Brandon (25:30)
Yeah. Yeah, there’s another concept called genetic mimicry. I don’t know if you’re

Jen Germain (25:35)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (25:36)
familiar with that, but the thing is with gluten, it’s it’s been suggested that it’s very similar to synovial fluid. And so if you’re sensitive to gluten, obviously what w what’s gonna happen if it’s in your bloodstream, your immune system’s gonna attack it. What what happens then? You get inflammation, right?

‘Cause it’s trying to it’s trying to get rid of it. It’s trying to package it up and it’s trying to get rid of it. And

Obviously our joints, or nearly all of our joints are synovial joints. They synovium that lubricates the joints. So if your immune cells now think, every time I see gluten, I’m going to attack it. I’m going to create inflammation, try and get it out there. Well then you’re going to start getting inflammation in the joints.

Jen Germain (26:26)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (26:26)
Right? And I think that’s potentially one of the reasons why when when you cut out gluten, that you know joints do start to feel much better.

is p c potentially because of that genetic mimicry.

Jen Germain (26:39)
Yep, yeah.

Leigh Brandon (26:43)
Okay, so I the the other thing that’s important on that point as well is something called central sensitization. Are you familiar with that?

Jen Germain (26:55)
Mm, I’m not as familiar with that. Go ahead.

Leigh Brandon (26:57)
So this is this is really something that’s come out of pain neuroscience in in recent years.

Jen Germain (26:59)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (27:02)
And what it what it’s basically suggesting is that when the nervous system has multiple inputs or stresses, it gets to a point where it goes beyond the capacity. Okay, so the load the load of the input goes beyond the capacity that the body can handle, and and therefore it sees it as a threat. So

Once the body perceives a threat, the brain then signals pain in the body, right? Because it’s trying to protect itself.

Jen Germain (27:34)
Sure. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (27:34)
And one of the key things that inputs into the nervous system is the gut and it’s and the inflammation. So it’s not it’s not just tissue damage that can potentially cause a pain signal, it can be any kind of input into the nervous system. It can even be your emotions.

Jen Germain (27:54)
Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (27:56)
And

you know, when it comes to central sensitization, quite often it’s a combination of multiple things, not just one.

Jen Germain (28:03)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (28:03)
So it can be emotions, it can be stress, it can be the foods that you’re eating, it could be something to do with your balance of your microbiome in your gut. It could be that you’ve got

Jen Germain (28:12)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (28:12)
some peripheral pain somewhere, like you know, you might have tennis elbow or or something like that going on.

Jen Germain (28:19)
Right.

Leigh Brandon (28:20)
And all of that summates. And if it goes beyond the threshold.

Then the person might experience pain somewhere in the body, right? And and that and that part that’s in pain might not have any damage, but the

Jen Germain (28:36)
Right.

Leigh Brandon (28:37)
person’s experiencing the pain. So if you can optimize your gut health, it’s

Jen Germain (28:43)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (28:43)
gonna really calm down that central nervous system and and hopefully bring it back into a normal state where it’s not overly sensitized.

Jen Germain (28:52)
Yeah.

Yeah. And just on that point of of of that, you know, when we think about it, you know, one of the emerging studies as well is the is the gut brain access and the and the gut brain, because it has its own brain, and most people don’t know that. And it’s so integral because it talks to us our brain, our gut actually talks to our brain more than our brain talks to our gut. It sends more signals up the vagus nerve. And

That is so spot on with what you just said, because if you think about it, that that vagus nerve is the information superhighway basically of the b of the body, right? And so if it is receiving multiple signals and it crosses that threshold, that gut brain, if you think about it, then the the traffic on that superhighway is is blocked and it’s not getting through right. And so, or there’s too much overload on that highway. And so what happens? We all know when there’s a traffic jam and stuff like that.

It’s not going to get through, there’s going to be issues. So you’re going to have those pain signals and you’re going to have that gut health not being able to function the way that it’s supposed to. And when you have that bad bacteria outweighing the good bacteria, you’re not going to like the results of what gets through on that superhighway then either, because that bad bacteria feeds so many problems and chronic conditions in the body.

that you’re right, it’s just going to pile up and it’s just going to send out almost like if you almost think of like a honing beacon, it’s just gonna send out more pain. It’s just gonna send out more issues in the body.

Leigh Brandon (30:25)
Hmm.

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, th that the the concepts of good and bad bacteria, I I used to be what you just described, but I’ve actually learned that that might not be actually accurate. But that’s that’s a whole that’s a whole nother can of worms that we probably don’t we don’t want to go down, but I’ll I’ll I’ll to I’ll talk to you after.

Jen Germain (30:37)
Mm okay. Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. That sounds awesome.

Leigh Brandon (30:47)
So many people living with chronic pain f feel that they’re doing everything right yet.

their symptoms persist. Why do you think people often remain stuck and what might conventional symptom focused approaches be overlooking?

Jen Germain (31:04)
I

think people can remain stuck because they don’t either they’re not aware that there’s something that they can do, or that they just rely on conventional to tell them what they can do and they don’t go outside of that box. I do think sometimes people believe, well, this is just the way it is. This I’m just here and this is the way it has to be. and then part of it can also be that they don’t want to change because it’s not easy to make changes. And I think people

they can they can look at the the overall picture and if you say, well, if if you wanna if you wanna heal, are you willing to give up the things that make you sick? And not everybody’s willing to do that. And I think that’s part of it too, is that not everybody is willing like I gave up sugar, but not everybody’s willing to do that. Not everybody’s willing to give up some of those things that made them or get gets them to that point of illness.

And they’re not willing to say, you know, I think I need to change. And in especially conventional medicine here in the US, people don’t ask them to do that either. They’ll they’ll they would rather give them a medication or something along those lines. They’ll Yeah, change your diet, but then they don’t give them any kind of guidance. So then they’re like, Okay, well, what do I do then? And I think that’s part of the too. a lot of the physicians in the US do not have nutrition, a nutrition background at all. They might have like an hour.

study on that unless they were really interested in it, they’re not gonna have it. So they can say, yeah, change your diet, but they’re not gonna give you any kind of information on how to do that. And so people I think can get stuck with that to say, okay, well my friend did this, my friend did that, and then they try it and it doesn’t work for them. Well that’s because everybody’s body’s different too and you may not respond as well to what your friend did.

it may you know a ketogenic diet may have worked really well for them but for you if you cut you know if you do a ketogenic diet and your you know genes are about 10% of your of your overall impact in your health so if you have some kind of genetic expression if you have too much of one thing it might not work as well for you than what your what your friend did. So just having that awareness, but most people don’t. And so they do it

They try it, they don’t have success, so then like, I must have did it wrong. I’m not even gonna bother. And so they feel like they failed. And really, it’s not something you did, it’s that you may not have just had the right of information for your body.

Leigh Brandon (33:40)
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I think a lot of people they have full trust in in the in the medical system and you know if if a medical practitioner says, Look, we’ve got nothing more to offer you, then it’s n natural to assume, well then I’ve tried everything. Right. But the problem the problem with a symptom focused approach is that it’s not looking at the root cause of the problem. Right? And that’s the only way to heal.

right is to is

Jen Germain (34:11)
Yep. yeah.

Leigh Brandon (34:12)
is to find the root cause and to reverse that. And another another issue is with symptom focused approaches, the person is a passive patient and not an active participant. Right? And you know I would probably say more than ninety percent of people that I’ve helped

I’ve had to teach them to help themselves. There was no other way of doing it. There are some situations. People come to me with the most recent one, someone came to me with tennis elbow. I did one treatment and it was gone. And I I had a similar thing with someone with carpal tunnel several years

Jen Germain (34:52)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (34:55)
ago. One treatment, gone. But that’s not always the case. You know, so most people I think have to realize that.

The only person that can heal them is them. Right? No no one in a white coat

Jen Germain (35:07)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. No.

Leigh Brandon (35:10)
can can can help you. Well, not they can’t heal you, right?

Jen Germain (35:14)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (35:17)
and going back to people not wanting to change. When I’m working with someone, the first so once someone commits to working with me, so I people have to commit to three, six or twelve months,

Jen Germain (35:29)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (35:30)
d depending on their circumstances. And the first one hour

We purely spend on goal setting.

Jen Germain (35:38)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (35:40)
Next stage for me, once we’ve set someone’s goals, is to set core values.

Jen Germain (35:44)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (35:44)
So I will say to them, right, okay, so in order to achieve the goals that we’ve set out, and they realize their life’s going to be much better, right? If they if they achieve those goals. And then the core values are a set of values they live their life by in order to achieve those goals. So if someone says to me, I’m not willing to give up X as an example.

Then I say, right, we we need to relook at your core values, or perhaps we need to relook at your goals. Because

Jen Germain (36:16)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (36:17)
if you’re going to continue that behaviour, you’re

Jen Germain (36:20)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (36:20)
not going to reach the goal that you want to achieve.

Jen Germain (36:23)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (36:24)
Is that is no what what do you want? Because I’ll I’ll support you in whatever you want, right?

Jen Germain (36:26)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (36:29)
Whatever your goal is, but we we might need to change your goal. And quite often when you lay it like that to them, they go, Well, no, I still want to achieve that, right?

Jen Germain (36:37)
Yeah,

yeah.

Leigh Brandon (36:38)
And then the next step is right, okay. So let’s build a rainbow bridge. So let’s say it’s someone that’s consuming a lot of processed sugar. It might be okay, so let’s let’s start to reduce that. Maybe we’re going to replace some of that. May maybe we’ll use I don’t know stevia or something like that instead, right? And let and let’s go on a small process. Or you know, someone goes to bed at 2 a.m.

Well I’m not gonna say to them, Well look, you should be in bed by 10 pm, right? I’ll say, right, okay, let’s this week your aim, your aim is 145. Right? That’s normally a manageable step. But if I said 10 pm, right, four hours earlier, like they’re just gonna lay there, they’re just gonna lay there cursing me, right?

Jen Germain (37:22)
Yeah, they’ll be like, What? Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (37:27)
So I think it’s really important a set goals, b have core values, and then

when it comes to the behaviours, have those rainbow bridges along the way to make to soften the blow rather than I mean there are situ there are some situations w where, you know, like you did with your your client, I might say, right, I want you just completely eliminate gluten. Right? Sometimes. And if and if they’re gonna really struggle with that, say, right, okay, we’re we’re gonna have to build a rainbow bridge. But then

Jen Germain (37:57)
Yep. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (37:58)
gradually reduce it, but then it’s just gonna take longer, right?

And I say, right, which way do you want to do it? Do you want to do it slowly or you want to do it fast? And again, it’s that decision. You know?

Jen Germain (38:09)
Yep, absolutely. Yeah. That

I think, you know, that’s that’s one of the best parts. Like when I whenever I’m doing meeting somebody and they say, Well, you know, how long does it take? I’m like, it depends on the person. Because a person who like for me, I was an all or nothing kind of girl. I was like, Okay, I can toss the sugar out. I I got it out of my house, there’s nothing in there. but other people can’t can’t do it that way. They have to do like reduce it. And that’s there’s nothing wrong with that. And that’s why I try to tell people.

You go at the at the speed that’s comfortable for you. For me, it was one way. For somebody else, it’s going to be different. And that’s why, you know, everybody’s health journey is different. That’s why you can’t say, okay, it’s going to be this amount of time. You can say, here’s a ballpark. But like you said, how fast do you want to go? You can go really fast. You can make the grand gesture and say, okay, I’m done with this, this, and this. Or, like you said, with the rainbow bridge, is to understand, okay, we’ll just start.

doing some reductions. We’re looking for progress, not perfection, and we’re just gonna keep, you know, reducing this or, you know, adding this in or doing this or that. And mindset is one of the biggest parts of a health journey is to believe that you can heal. And I think that’s why they come to people like us, because they they believe that they can make a difference in the way that they live their lives and they know, but they just need some help, which I do encourage people to go

you know, see somebody that resonates with them that can help them because it does make it more manageable than doing it on your own. It doesn’t mean you have to stay with them for the rest of your life or anything like that. I try to tell my clients I love them and care about them as people, but I don’t want them with me forever. I want them to I wanna be able to give them the resources and the the confidence and everything that they need so that one day they won’t need me anymore. That they feel that they’ve got it and they, you know

When my clients say that to and say, Jen, I got it. Like that’s that’s what I want for them. I don’t want them with me forever. because I want them to make the best choices for their health. And I do think it’s very helpful for people to go to seek people out, whether it’s a trainer, coach, whatever, that resonates with you, because I think it’ll help you get there faster than if you don’t.

Leigh Brandon (40:29)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, my view has always been most of the time I educate and empower people to to help themselves. What I don’t

Jen Germain (40:41)
Yeah. Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (40:44)
want is someone that is dependent upon me. Right. I I think for anybody, if you’re dependent on a practitioner or a therapist to keep you out of pain or to keep you healthy

probably not the right approach. Right? Take take the power back yourself. Learn

Jen Germain (41:00)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (41:04)
learn what you need to learn. Go through go through an experience, because that’s how we learn.

Jen Germain (41:08)
Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (41:10)
And as you said, perhaps get support along the way ’cause it’s it’s going to be quicker. And then you’ve got the rest of your life with the knowledge to look after yourself. And you

Jen Germain (41:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (41:20)
don’t need to go and get all the injections and all the

Mani manipulations and w whatever else, you know, you’re you’re currently getting that’s really not helping in the long term.

Jen Germain (41:31)
Yep, yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (41:36)
So we know chronic stress, emotional trauma and nervous system dysregulation can influence both digestive health and pain perception. How important are these factors in your approach to helping people recover from chronic illness and persistent pain?

Jen Germain (41:53)
Yeah, so one of the things I I stress is how is your stress management, how is your emotional regulation, because th they really are, I think, the things that we don’t think about the most. Everybody thinks about exercise nutrition, exercise nutrition. Like they’ll think about that, you know, all the time. But when it comes to stress, emotional regulation, you know, towards gut health, people don’t think about that.

And and don’t consider those other inputs into our body, but they are just as important as that nutrition and as the exercise. Because if you could be eating the healthiest diet in the world, but if you are stressed, you are not gonna absorb the the nutrients in your gut. Because the way that that stress response works with that HPA access is that that hypothalamus.

Tells it tells your gut that to not do certain secretions because it does fluid balance, it does hormone balance, it does so many different things in our body that it’s responsible for. So it’s gonna tell your gut, no, no, no, no, we’re not, we’re not gonna process food the way we need to because we’re stressed. And remember, your brain cannot tell the difference between real and imagined stress. So even if you’re worried about a meeting that has not occurred yet, it’s your brain still sees it as a stress. So you could be sitting there eating.

you know, the most healthy nutrient dense food, but your body’s not gonna absorb it correctly because of that stress. So that’s something that people don’t think about, but it is something that they need to think about in the process of working on their health because it’s a huge impact in our overall gut health.

Leigh Brandon (43:35)
Yeah, and it it ties back into w what I was talking about earlier as well with the central sensitization. Right?

Jen Germain (43:41)
Yep, absolutely. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (43:43)
The the more fear someone has, the more the central nervous system is going to be sensitized. Because what what’s the

Jen Germain (43:50)
Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (43:51)
purpose of fear? It it’s to keep you safe, right? If you see a lion, you you wanna feel fear, right? If if it’s in the wild, right? Because

Jen Germain (43:59)
Yep, yep.

Leigh Brandon (44:02)
you don’t want to be eaten.

Jen Germain (44:03)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (44:04)
Right.

Or if you see a I don’t know poisonous snake, right? You want to feel fear because you don’t want to just start playing with it, right? Pick it up

Jen Germain (44:12)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (44:12)
and right, because bites you, you you might be dead in ten minutes.

Jen Germain (44:15)
You have Yep, absolutely. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (44:18)
You know, so you know it’s really important. You know, one one of the things that that I work with people as well is is their emotions. And sometimes the emotions aren’t even conscious emotions, they’re subconscious.

Jen Germain (44:32)
Yeah. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (44:34)
And

One of the I guess it’s a hypothesis that I have, I’m pr I’m pretty confident it’s it’s accurate one, but if you have unconscious, unresolved emotional trauma,

Jen Germain (44:50)
Yes.

Leigh Brandon (44:51)
would that not affect your nervous system? Right? If if if there’s if

Jen Germain (44:57)
Yes. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (45:00)
there’s let’s say let’s say it’s fear, could be another negative emotion.

Would that not put you on edge? Right? You know, let’s say some something

Jen Germain (45:06)
Mm-hmm. absolutely. Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (45:11)
negative happened to you as a as a young child, that could stay in your nervous system your entire life.

Jen Germain (45:17)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (45:17)
And because, you know, if it’s before the age of seven, the chances are you won’t remember it.

So one of the things that I do is I’m able to access people’s subconscious and find and find those subconscious emotions and actually help remove them from the body as well. And, you know, my belief is that has a real calming effect on the body because you’ve no you’re no longer holding on to that emotion.

Jen Germain (45:43)
Yes. Yeah, emotions, you know, they’re they’re, you know, we’re energetic beings. We we have energy. And and that I don’t think that gets discussed enough either, is that is the way that that energy flows through us. And when you have that emotion in your subconscious that you are not aware of and you are so bright, that is is playing in the background in everything that you do.

Cause you it is part of, if you want to say your default programming, if you want to like put it in those kinds of terms, and it’s running in the background the whole time. So sometimes you might not even be aware of the way that you react to certain things, but it’s there. And it’s always that underlying issue. And if it does go unhealed and unresolved, then that can wreak havoc on that nervous system. And that nervous system is totally disjointed.

than you know your whole life unless you do seek some healing or some therapeutics or or whatever you’re using to get into the to break through in that subconscious healing. But yeah, it’s you know our minds are either our greatest asset or they can be our greatest to our greatest detriment. And the mind is so powerful. and that’s something that I’ve

discovered more and more as I’ve been working with my clients and just knowing what I did in my own health journey is how important the thoughts that you think about yourself, the way that you see the world, the lens that you look through things is so important. Especially as you’re trying to heal and when you’re trying to work on yourself. I think, you know, one of the things I talk to my clients about is is like, they’ll they’ll sometimes come in and just say, Jen, you know, I failed at this, I failed at that, and I’ll be like,

Let me ask you question. What did you t what did you say to yourself when you did that? And they’re like, and they’ll tell me. And I said, Well, would you ever say that to me? And they’re my God, Jen, no, I’d never say that to I’m like, well, then why would you ever say that to you? You’re an amazing person. And I know we can all be critical of ourselves at times. And sometimes we do need a little bit of a a kick to get us going forward. But you want to make sure that the the trillions of cells that listen to you every single day.

Wanna optimally work for you and that you value them. And so talking mean to yourself and bad about yourself is not gonna get you where you wanna go. And we don’t think about the way that we think about ourselves or the way that we talk to ourselves as that important, but it truly, truly is. it’s it and like you said, with the the subconscious, if that does not get resolved, that is always playing in the background. And that’s usually where the default

comes through.

Leigh Brandon (48:37)
Yeah, you know, the I’m sure you’re familiar with the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton, right, in his book The Biology of Belief, you know, and he

Jen Germain (48:42)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (48:45)
says ninety-five to ninety-nine percent of all behaviors, or you could call them choices that we make are made at the subconscious level. And we often make choices and we don’t really know why we’re making them, right? Because our subconscious mind can process about one million times more information than our conscious mind at any one time.

And and the other thing that you were mentioning there as well is how you talk to yourself, right? And again look looking at the work of Dr. Imoto, so he wrote a book called The Hidden Messages in Water. And you know, you know, he he used to put water in certain conditions. He might put it in a jar that says love on it, or a jar that says hate, or he might play death metal to it, or he might play

you know, a symph yeah, classical music or the beatles,

Jen Germain (49:36)
Classical. Yeah. Classical music. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (49:40)
and then freeze the water and then take a photograph of the crystals. And if it’s a positive emotion or if it’s a harmonious piece of music, it creates these beautiful crystals. And if it’s a negative word or if it’s unharmonious music, it creates these horrible, disgusting looking crystals.

Jen Germain (50:04)
Yep.

Leigh Brandon (50:05)
Right.

Jen Germain (50:05)
Yep.

Leigh Brandon (50:06)
So whenever you’re whenever you’re even just creating a thought, you have to remember that you’re about 67 to 70% water. So

Jen Germain (50:18)
Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (50:19)
what are you doing to the majority of your body if you’re thinking negatively? Right? And it’s quite interesting as well. So a couple of models I use i in my work, one is called the six foundation principles, and they are in a hierarchy.

And at the top is positive thoughts. And then you’ve got hydration, nutrition, sorry, breathing, hydration, nutrition, movement, and sleep/slash Acadian rhythm. And then in the other model, it’s called the survival totem pole. So it’s called the the Czech survival totem pole, which was designed by Paul Czech. But the top of the totem pole is the psyche.

And why is it at the top? Well, because in the totem pole, the higher the higher the system is on the totem pole, the more important it is for human survival. So the sake is at the top because if you didn’t want to live anymore, you could end it. Right?

Jen Germain (51:17)
Yep. Yes you could. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (51:20)
So in both those two models, they’re both agreeing with you that

Jen Germain (51:24)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (51:24)
your mind is the most important thing when it comes to healing. And you know, after 30 years.

I know that’s the I know that’s the truth.

Jen Germain (51:31)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (51:32)
And when I had my own, I would say biggest painful experience I guess, so thirteen years ago I ruptured my L four five disc and had quite a badly bulging L five S one disc.

And even though recovery was slow and sometimes it would get frustrating, I just had this deep inner knowing I was gonna get better. It wasn’t it wasn’t a hope, it was a knowing.

Jen Germain (52:01)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (52:02)
And I think having that attitude really helped the process. And you know, it took me almost two years to heal fully and get back to where I was before, but you would never know.

Right. So e even now, sometimes I’ll play a tennis match against someone that’s, you know, nearly forty years younger than me.

Jen Germain (52:24)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (52:25)
And I play funny I’ll tell you a quick funny story. I was playing against someone a c a couple of months ago and he said, what are you doing for the rest of the day? I said, I’m actually going to a gig, I’m going to Lenny Kravitz

Jen Germain (52:38)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (52:38)
and he said, Who’s who’s Lenny Kravitz?

Jen Germain (52:40)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (52:42)
And I said, he was big in the nineties He he said, I was born in two thousand and six.

Hmm.

Which made me feel extremely old. But

Jen Germain (52:52)
Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (52:54)
but you know, if if if you only could see our bodies you wouldn’t you wouldn’t have been able to tell who was the young guy and who was the old guy. You know? So,

Jen Germain (53:01)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leigh Brandon (53:04)
you know, healing is so much to do with the mind.

Jen Germain (53:07)
Yes,

it is. Yeah, it’s it’s amazing that that mindset and and knowing I and I love what you said. I I I just knew that it was I was going to heal. Like I knew, even if it was gonna take me a little bit, but you knew. And I think that is part of the drive when you’re in a healing process, is if you know that you are going to heal.

It just takes a pr it just takes time. And having that certainty is very important and it and it gives you the drive that you have every single day to say, nope, even if today was a little bit of a setback, I know I’m on the way.

Leigh Brandon (53:52)
think what it also gives you as well is a degree of calmness. Because

Jen Germain (53:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (53:58)
again, if you’re if you’re stressing out about it, that’s gonna sensitize the nervous system, it’s gonna make the pain

Jen Germain (54:00)
Yeah. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (54:03)
worse.

Jen Germain (54:03)
Yep.

Leigh Brandon (54:06)
So yeah, very interesting. Now you often say that you can’t hear what a body you hate. So for someone who’s lived with pain for years and feels that their body has let them down, how how might their beliefs, emotions, and relationship with their body influence their recovery, which is kind of what we’ve just been talking about.

Jen Germain (54:25)
Yeah,

I was gonna say, I think what we were just talking about really hit hit that that value home is to say to heal, you have to love your body. It may not be the body right now that you envision for yourself, but to understand that it has been there for you your whole life. Your body and it really is your ride or die. I mean, if you think about it, there’s nobody else. It is it is the one that has been with you your whole entire life.

And to understand that it has carried you where you are so far, and you have to love the body that you’re in right now. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to be the one that stays necessarily because you’re trying to heal, but you have to love who you are and love the body that you have. And even, you know, I I’ve worked with clients and they said, Jen, I can’t say that to myself. And I said, I understand, but then try small parts first. Say, you know.

I I love my hand because it helped it caught me the other day so I didn’t fall, you know, and break something. So even if you have to start small, it’s kind of what we talked about before, having that rainbow bridge, start small. Say the things that you really do love about yourself. but having that that love for yourself is gonna carry you further in your health journey because if you have the mindset that you don’t like your body, that you don’t like certain things, or you hate this or you hate that.

You aren’t going to progress in healing because you’re going to be stuck in that mindset. And like we talked about, the psyche and the mind are so powerful. If you say, well, this body, I hate it because of this, this, and this, and then how you how you talk to yourself with the negative versus the positive, that is just going to keep you stuck. And that’s just going to keep you back in your journey instead of propelling you forward. And if if we can start to realize

That the way we talk to ourselves, the way we think about ourselves and loving our body, even if it’s not where we want it yet, and just say, you know what, it’s coming. It’s in, you know, I I I once told a client, because she she did not she did not have a a wonderful body image of herself. And I said, the woman that you wanna be is inside you right now. She is there. And what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna make her come out. So she’s within you, so you gotta love her.

And you have to love the body that she’s in right now so that she can come out later. And we’re gonna get to her. And and just having her work through that so that she could start loving herself and realizing that she was inside of her and that we were gonna get, you know, her to to come out. And I think just doing something along those lines, even if it right when you look at yourself in the mirror and you’re like, I don’t, it’s like look deeper, look beyond what you can see.

Look beyond that and understand that you are a beautiful human being who has energy, who has love in their heart, and really work on seeing a deeper part of yourself and knowing that the person that you want to become is inside you and you just have to allow them to come out.

Leigh Brandon (57:42)
Yeah, that’s really important. I I think what what can help with that as well is something that I I do and I do encourage my clients to do as well, is is every day have some time to have an attitude of gratitude. So,

Jen Germain (57:54)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (57:56)
you know, I might I I wake up most mornings and I think, right, what can I be grateful for right now? And it might be, I’ve just had a nice sleep, I’ve got a comfortable bed, I can breathe, I can see really well, the sun has come up.

Got nutritious food in the fridge, I’ve got really high quality water to drink. I have a shower, right? Because we forget, right? Showers haven’t been around for that long, right?

Jen Germain (58:25)
The little things. Yep. No. No.

Leigh Brandon (58:29)
I have a dishwasher, I have a tumble dryer, I have a washing machine, I have a fridge and a freezer, I have a car, which means I can go wherever I want.

I look out the window and I can see swans and ducks and geese.

Jen Germain (58:43)
Yep.

It’s the little things and and being grateful.

Leigh Brandon (58:45)
Right.

Jen Germain (58:47)
And the neuroplasticity that changes when you again we I talked about it before that lens of how you view the world. So if you have that attitude of gratitude and you can see all the positive things, your brain is going to start focusing then to find more positive. And if you and once you keep doing that, that neuroplasticity, it’s going to keep creating and seeing the good every single day.

instead of the bad. So even just starting off with like if you can start off with three every morning and then maybe do five and that kind of stuff. And even at night, like what went well today? Like a lot of us will be like, God, today was like such a it was this and that. It’s like, but what went well today? What what happened today that I’m very grateful for that just made my day? And it’s like, well maybe I hit all the green lights and I got home faster than I thought I was going to get home. Or

Maybe this person smiled at me at the market and did this or that. And it just made me feel good about me today. Or maybe I helped somebody pick up something that they dropped. And that made me feel connection and important and that kind of, you know, whatever it is, it really is the small things in life that we take for granted every single day. And you’re right. Even just I woke up this morning. I’m grateful that I woke up because there are people who did not.

And just having that great gratefulness to say, you know what, I woke up, I’m able to take a shower, because you’re right, they have not been around as long as we think they have. but but being grateful for every little thing is gonna train your brain to keep looking for every positive thing that can happen. And you are definitely going to start with like your day is going to look more positive. Everything is gonna look more doable in your life versus God, I can’t do this or

This isn’t gonna work out for me and that kind of stuff. And it’s that lens that we look through in our life.

Leigh Brandon (1:00:43)
Again, if we think about if we’re having these positive thoughts, what’s that doing to the water in our body? Right? Yeah.

Jen Germain (1:00:50)
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Our cells are loving it.

Leigh Brandon (1:00:56)
The other thing to be aware of as well, you know, someone kind of hates their body, it can also be that there’s again something subconscious going on. Right? So it might be again something happened to them years ago.

Jen Germain (1:01:05)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. something different to them years ago.

Leigh Brandon (1:01:11)
And then they’re not connecting the dots because they’re not conscious of it. and it might be holding them back from doing the things they need to do to get the way they want to look now.

Jen Germain (1:01:20)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:01:22)
You know,

some ’cause people will do things to protect themselves from danger. Right?

Jen Germain (1:01:26)
sure. Yeah.

Yeah, because the brain like you said, the brain wants to keep us alive. That’s its job. And if it triggers any kind of emotional fear, then they’re gonna they’re gonna shut off or they’re gonna shut down and then they’re gonna do what their normal default settings are.

Leigh Brandon (1:01:45)
And and some people will perceive that potentially pain or illness comes with love and attention because that’s the only way they got it as a child. Right?

Jen Germain (1:01:57)
Yeah. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:01:58)
So that so then they might subconsciously sabotage their program because their subconscious is saying, Yeah, but if you’re out of pain, no one’s gonna give you any attention, no one’s gonna love you.

Jen Germain (1:02:11)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (1:02:12)
So they they’re sabotaging but they don’t know why.

Jen Germain (1:02:14)
Yeah. And that’s an excellent point. that’s something that people and that’s why the mind is so important, is that if if you got a lot of attention or something drew one way and then they think, well, but if I get out of this, no one’s gonna pay attention to me anymore. And and you’re right, they can self sabotage and not even realize it. They just they just start that process within themselves because they want to keep the

the loop that they’ve played their whole life.

Leigh Brandon (1:02:48)
Yeah. And sometimes for some people the pain of change is is greater than the pain they’re currently in.

But again, that’s often at the subconscious level. Because some people

Jen Germain (1:03:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (1:03:08)
might say, you know, you might suggest to someone right wanting to cut out gluten and they cut out gluten and they start feeling so much better, you know, their joints are now feeling good. And then they go somewhere and they eat loads of gluten. And you say, Why did you do that? And they’re like, I d I don’t know. I don’t know why I did it. And now they feel terrible again, right?

Jen Germain (1:03:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

It’s like, do you want to feel terrible? But yeah, you’re right. The people just don’t always associate that with something from their subconscious mind that can be carried through and they just don’t realize it. Yeah. Mind is powerful.

Leigh Brandon (1:03:43)
So absolutely.

So for someone listening who’s been told that their chronic pain or illness is something they simply have to live with, what practical steps would you encourage them to to take to begin investigating potential underlying causes and ultimately regain a sense of control over their health?

Jen Germain (1:04:04)
Yeah,

so I think one of the steps would be is if somebody tells you that that’s all that they can do for you, or like you’re just gonna have to live like this, I would fire them and find somebody new. That would be number one. Number two is ask a lot of questions. look up the symptoms or the things that you’re experiencing. And then when you do go to a practitioner or somebody that you’re working with, is ask a lot of questions. The more that you can advocate for yourself, the better.

because that advocacy, because nobody else is going to. the doctors aren’t going to advocate for you. They’re, you know, unfortunately, the way that the system is working, it’s not gonna happen for most people. so you have to advocate for yourself, you have to ask lots of questions. And then number three, I would say, is look at that mindset, is do you believe that you can heal? And if you believe that you can heal, then you have to find a way that works best for you.

So finding somebody that they can resonate with, or like for functional medicine, you know, I I love functional medicine because of the holistic approach and the way that they look at that root cause. so maybe that is something that they have to investigate and say, is this is this something that would work for me? Is this something that I feel would really benefit me? And then say, okay, where do I have that around me? Or is that something I can do telehealth or or what have you? But the mindset of knowing that you can heal.

Is a big piece, and then say, where do I want to start? Where do I want to focus? Because if you if you have too broad of a spectrum, it can get overwhelming. So try to narrow it down a little bit. Where do you want to get started? Is it with nutrition? Is it with exercise? trying to narrow it down so that you can work a little bit easily so that you don’t feel like you’re trying to do everything all at once and get too overwhelmed.

I think those are s you know, some of the tips that I would start off with so that you don’t you know, just say, Okay, I’m chucking everything out the door and I’m just gonna start on this and then and then you can’t follow through because either one, you self-sabotage yourself, as we’ve been talking about self subconsciously, or it’s just too much all at once. And it and you know, it it just is not sustainable. And sustainability is the thing that you wanna have is consistency and sustainability.

Leigh Brandon (1:06:27)
Because ultimately really what most people need is a different different way of living. Right? Because the way they’re living now has got them to where they are. So if you want change, you have to create the change. There’s there’s that saying, isn’t there, if you do what you’ve always done, you’re gonna get what you’ve always got. Right? And

Jen Germain (1:06:44)
Yep, absolutely. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:06:47)
one thing I say a lot to my clients, and I’m sure I’ve said it a million times on this podcast, no one ever achieves anything amazing by staying in their comfort zone.

Jen Germain (1:06:56)
absolutely. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:06:57)
So

get comfortable being uncomfortable. And

Jen Germain (1:06:59)
Yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:07:01)
some something I I again I use quite a lot that I thought about earlier, but it’s an appropriate time as well. It’s the two Ps, patience and persistence.

Jen Germain (1:07:15)
Absolutely. Yeah, you ha yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:07:16)
Right, because it’s once

you get there it’s gonna you know, if you’ve got the tools, it’s gonna last you for the rest of your life. But but be patient, don’t think it’s a quick fix, ’cause

Jen Germain (1:07:21)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Leigh Brandon (1:07:26)
generally these things aren’t quick fixes generally. And they can be three months, six months, twelve months, eighteen months, two years, right? My back pain my back di my disc injury was twenty two months. Right? If I didn’t have the knowledge I had and I went to someone else and after three months

I’d probably improved, I don’t know, 10-15%. I might have said, well, that doesn’t work. Right.

Jen Germain (1:07:51)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (1:07:55)
But because I knew the process myself, because I’d had helped many others with a similar issue, I knew it was it was going to take time. But I had to be patient, but I also had to be persistent. Keep

Jen Germain (1:08:07)
Mm-hmm.

Leigh Brandon (1:08:08)
keep doing the right things every day. And then even though potentially from day to day I couldn’t notice the improvement.

From month to month I could.

Jen Germain (1:08:17)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s taking it’s having that consistency and that I and I always say that to my clients, consistency is your key. The more that you can be consistent with everything and that goes with that persistence is like every day, you know, there will be days where you might not do as well. But I try to tell people, don’t beat yourself up. Take it as more of a lessons learned kind of thing and say, Okay, what happened today? What was different? And okay, so I did this today, tomorrow, I’m gonna try not to do that tomorrow.

Because if you beat yourself up, that goes back to that negativity and that, you know, that that redrawing back. And we want to keep pushing forwards. but patience is one of the biggest things because ever in our world today, everything is like instant gratification. And it’s not that way with the human body. you can start to feel better. Like I said, my brain fog lifted in a few days, which I was amazed. I was like, gosh, I didn’t even know I had that. but it still took me.

Some time to heal. And I still work on myself. I mean, I’m six years into my health journey and I still tweak things all the time for me. And like, okay, well, maybe I should try this or maybe I should try that. It kind of it really doesn’t end because you want to try to have that maintenance, but you also say, Well, if I do this, could I feel even better? You know, kind of thing too. So because once you start feeling amazing, you just want to keep it and you wanna see if you can make it feel even better. And I think.

That patience is very important because it didn’t happen overnight. We have to make sure that we’re being realistic and understanding it usually took most of us decades to get to where we are. So it’s not going to be all done in three to six months or like you said, even twenty-two months. There’s still things that you may have to keep working on, but it’s worth it if, you know, because it’s sustainable and it’s gonna carry you for the rest of your life.

Leigh Brandon (1:10:10)
Yeah, for me for me it’s a way of life. And and the reason it’s a way of life is because when you look after your body, and when I say the body I’m talking the mind as well, right? The body mind.

Jen Germain (1:10:21)
Yep, sure.

Leigh Brandon (1:10:23)
It gives you options and it gives you freedom. So if someone, you know, calls me, do you want to do this? The decision is mine. I can I think, yeah, that’d be great, I’ll do it.

Right, I’ve got no limitations. Or if I don’t want to do it, I’ll just say thanks for asking, but yeah, I don’t don’t really fancy doing that. If you’re in pain, you don’t always have that decision. Right? And what’s what’s freedom? Freedom is the ability to have choices. And when you’re in pain, when you’re not well, when you’ve got a chronic condition, you don’t always have that ability to make a choice.

So you can become a slave to your condition.

Jen Germain (1:11:09)
That’s true. Absolutely. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (1:11:11)
Right.

So what it what it gives you when you when you have a fully functional body it gives you freedom.

Jen Germain (1:11:20)
It does.

Leigh Brandon (1:11:20)
And and you’re able to do all the things that are meaningful or joyful in your life. Like I I can do it, I can do anything anything I p I want to.

Jen Germain (1:11:37)
Sure.

Leigh Brandon (1:11:40)
But I have that choice, right? You know,

Jen Germain (1:11:41)
Right. Yeah.

Leigh Brandon (1:11:42)
I’m near I’m nearly 60, but I’m as functional as I was when I was 40. Right. And I probably I was probably at my peak when I was about 37. You know? So for me, for me, the the commitment to it, and and it’s just to me, it’s not even commitment, it’s just my way of life, it’s just how I live, right? And it’s

Jen Germain (1:12:01)
Yep. It becomes that. Yep, absolutely.

Leigh Brandon (1:12:03)
because I’ve got clear

goals and core values. I I live my life in accordance with my core values and that allows me to live the life I want to lead rather than a life that is restricted.

Jen Germain (1:12:16)
Yep. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with that because you know people will talk about longevity, living, you know, to nineties and stuff like that, which is great, but you want that health span. You want to be able to live into those nineties doing the things that you want to do. Like that’s when I when I was diagnosed with what I what I had, I was like, I don’t want to be in the hospital doing different things or getting procedures. I don’t

That’s not my life. That’s not what I want to do. I didn’t foresee that for myself. And so you have to look at it and say, that’s not what I want. This is what I want. I want to be able to, you know, I had to figure out my food triggers and stuff like that. But it’s I can still eat, you know, we go out to eat. I know what I can eat. And so I enjoy those those foods that I know I can have that’s not gonna hurt my body. Instead of going out eating whatever I want and then going home and feeling miserable, you know.

Or just eating whatever and feeling going home and feeling miserable and then paying for it probably days or even weeks after that is to understand that I want to be able to live my life and enjoy my life every single day and not be in pain and and get up and feel and go and do whatever I want to do. And you’re right, it’s the freedom because when you’re sick, all you you know, there’s that the quote that I really, really love is that a healthy man wants a thousand things.

But a sick man only wants one thing and that’s his health back. Because you can do anything when you’re healthy. You can you can go out and say, okay, I want to do that, I want to do this, I want to do this. But when you’re sick, all you want to do is be healthy again so you can do whatever you want. And I know, like when I was sick, one of the things that I wanted to do, I because I couldn’t do it, was take my dog for a walk without pain. And as soon as I was able to, I was like, you know what? And I was scared to exercise because I had so much pain.

And I was like, you know what? Let’s go out today. I’ve been feeling really good. And I took my dog for a walk, and I was like, my gosh, I’m free. I can do what I want. And that is powerful. And I know that as we heal, is to know that you hold the keys to your freedom. And all you have to do is the patience and the persistence and the consistency and keep moving forward and not

You push yours you know, push back on yourself and just realize you’re an amazing person who wants and knows that they can heal. And you just have to find the right pathway for you, but you can get there. And and and taking that time for yourself because it’s worth it. It is so worth it.

Leigh Brandon (1:15:01)
said. I think that’s a really great way to wrap up the show. what’s next for you, Jen?

Jen Germain (1:15:08)
Well, I I have a lot of different things going on right now. So I have my signature programs that I just released not that long ago. I have Reset and Rise, which helps it’s it’s a health transformation program, so it’s three month long program. it really looks at mindset and identity work, so which is something I’ve I’ve noticed is lacking in programs out there, so that’s something I wanted to do.

And then I have which also includes genetics testing as well. So it’s really neat looking at it from the if you wanna say the inside out. so it’s really interesting and also doing some other programs as well for gut and mind microbiome work with genetics as well as for longevity. So those are some of the signature programs that I just released. So yeah.

Leigh Brandon (1:15:54)
Awesome, awesome. And where can people find you online? Where where do you want to send people?

Jen Germain (1:15:59)
Yeah, so they can find me at Compass Health Coaching L C dot com. They can also find me on Facebook, Instagram, as well as LinkedIn at the same handle, Compass Health Coaching L C. but yeah, thank you so much for having me today, Lee. It’s been a j a journey and a pleasure.

Leigh Brandon (1:16:16)
Yeah, pl pleasure’s been mine.

So that’s it from Jen and me for this week, but be sure to tune in, same time, same place, next week or beyond the pain.